In His Own Words: Dangerous Crazy Bitch Ahead

By Kim Saeed | Male Targets of Female Narcissists

Mar 01

Male victims of female Narcissists suffer just as deeply as female victims of male Narcissists. The reason is due to society’s standards for the male persona and the expectation for men to “suck it up” and/or go to “the rescue” of their female partner. While men don’t typically reach out for help until the end, they make up an equal (and sometimes larger) percentage of the audience researching Narcissistic behaviors.  For me to not address this fact would be a disservice to male targets out there trying to deal with their own abusive situations, especially that many of my own followers are male.  Therefore, I will periodically be posting articles related to male victims.  This is my first post on the subject, which is a re-blog from the site Shrink4men.  If you are a male target of a female Narcissist, this site may very well be your Godsend…

Dangerous Crazy Bitch Ahead

By  Dr. Tara J. Palmatier

“Disconnected” thought he was was reuniting with his middle school crush. He did not get the moonlight, roses and happily ever after he hoped for, but rather stalking, harassment, suicide threats, 911 calls and a restraining order.

In His Own Words:  Q and I met in middle school, back in the 80s. Zoning districts sent us to separate high schools, but we stayed in constant contact. In college we talked about dating, but various commitments conspired to keep us as friends. We lost touch in the early 90s, but in my mind Q was still a very dear friend.

Years later, I was facing the end of a 10 year marriage to a wonderful woman. As this story is not about her, I will only say we had a very amicable divorce and remain close friends (and yes, she has said “I told you so.”) Over the years, I had moved across the country, but would research Q, hoping to reestablish contact.

One night, while poking around on line, I found a profile belonging to Q. I was so excited at the possibility of catching up; and catch up we did. We shared stories about the intervening years; we talked about our current relationships. We were both at the end of long-term situations. Having someone with whom to talk was a great comfort.

RED Flag #1

As we were catching up, she told me of a tragedy that had happened to her and her child. In the interest of anonymity, I will only say this event made national news, though the names were changed to protect the innocent. When she talked about the situation, she made a point to tell me that she had never really let it upset her. Any emotionally healthy human being would have been devastated. I felt so terrible knowing anyone had to suffer that way. I rationalized it as she was simply dealing with denial, even 10+ years later.

RED Flag #2

Q was “engaged” to an abusive man (they had been engaged for about a decade, if you can call that an “engagement.”) Late one night, Q called me during a heated domestic dispute. She had been drinking and had allowed her teenaged child to be pulled into the middle of a drunken fight. At the time, I told myself she was a victim and drinking was a way of coping. I found myself thinking, “She is a victim, and I need to be there for her.”

RED Flag #3

I separated from my wife and moved closer to home. Q and I continued talking, still as friends. Late one night, while I was working, she sent an instant message, asking why I was still up. As I was busy, I did not immediately respond. She repeated the message. Then she started sending more and more desperate messages:

“Where are you”

“What are you doing”

“Who are you with”

“Why won’t you answer me”

all within the space of a few minutes. Then my phone started ringing. She called several times in rapid succession. Putting my professional responsibilities aside, I answered, assuming there must be some emergency. She started by accusing me of being involved with someone else. She accused me of lying and trying to hurt her.

We had yet to see each other since being back in touch and no talk of “a relationship” had occurred. She admitted that she had been drinking, and I told myself it was an isolated incident. This event repeated several times before we met again “face-to-face,” (and several times after.) Somehow, I convinced myself that she was upset; that given her situation, “Who wouldn’t be?”

RED Flag #4

After filing for divorce, Q started talking about a future relationship. She was still “engaged,” but swore she would end it before we got involved. As time passed, I let her push further and further into my life. When I asked her about her “engagement,” she told me I was using her as a “safety net.” She accused me of lying to her about my life. She accused me of lying to her about everything. She even suggested that my divorce was a lie.

At this point I tried to break it off. Her response? She told me that she had ended things with the abusive ex and had returned the ring. A few days later I ran into her in public, the engagement ring was still on her finger. When I asked her about it, she became irate with me, accusing me of lying and using her.

[Obviously, by now I was aware that many of the examples above were clearly “red flags.” Yet, I told myself “my friend needs me.” “She needs someone to show her…” well, you get the idea. It was the search to understand why I allow myself to think that way that brought me to Shrink4Men.]

RED Flag #5

Despite recognizing the issues, once she moved out I decided to start seeing her. Immediately she saw everyone in my life as a threat. She accused me of sleeping with my friends, her friends, strangers. If tried to talk to her about it, she accused me of twisting the facts to “blame her.” If I told her that it upset me, she said I was acting like a child.

Late one night, she showed up at my house drunk accusing me of sleeping with her friend. She pushed her way inside. I politely asked her to leave. She accused me of all types of crazy things. I stopped being polite and told her to leave.

When she refused, I tried to call 911, as I know better than to try and forcibly remove someone like that. My phone died as I was dialing. She was very animated and screaming by this time. She screams, “That’s right, call the cops, you pu$$y, you’re not even man enough throw me out of your house!”

Around this time, I discovered that she was again living with the “former fiancé.” When I approached her about it, again she blamed me. She accused me of trying to twist the facts to make it sound like her fault. I tried to cut off communication.

The final straw was when she entered my home (using a keypad) against my direct objection; I was not at home at the time. She refused to leave until I spoke to her “face-to-face.” I called the police and met them at my house. They removed her without the “face-to-face” conversation; I chose not to press charges. Later, I discovered that during her time in my house she went through everything I own, personal correspondence, bills, journals, etc. She stole several items that belonged to me, to my family, and to my former wife.

Over the next two days I received literally hundreds of phone calls, texts and email messages. I blocked as many phone numbers as my provider allowed, I blocked her email addresses, and she found new ones. Again I called the police, and again I tried to be the “nice guy” and did not press charges. I received one final message, a suicide threat.

At the police officer’s suggestion, I filed for a “Domestic Injunction” (i.e. restraining order), as that seemed the most appropriate course of action. In court, she told the judge the sad story of being a single mother targeted by an abusive man who promised her and her child the world, only to yank it out from under them. She explained that she was worried about me after I stopped talking to her, and that the “visit,” calls and emails were only to ensure my safety.

I had everything well documented, including the police reports, texts, emails and call logs. Had the judge bothered to even scan the available information, it contradicted everything Q told the court. The judge did not allow me to speak. He said my petition was all I was allowed to present. I was not allowed to question her or even ask the judge to please read her emails or texts. The judge treated me like a monster and her like the victim.

In the end, the judge said to me, “You are a despicable human being and as much as it pains me to do this, as Q has not denied the stalking behavior that you have alleged, I am forced to grant this petition. However, I will only allow the minimal time possible, which is 6 months.” Then to Q, he said, “I do not know why an attractive woman like yourself would even be seen with such a horrible person. Surely you are smart enough to stay way from people like him in the future.”

As I looked at the judge with complete and utter dismay, I said, “Thank you, your honor.” He said everything she needed to hear to validate her behavior. In her mind, it was everyone but her.

I have not heard from Q since that day in court.  Looking back, this is what I would like to tell myself:

  1. Do not ignore “red flags.”
  2. A bad situation, does not excuse bad behavior.
  3. Press Charges.
  4. If you go to court, expect to be treated as a monster.

Ironically, Q was the first one to tell me about BPD. Her mother had been diagnosed with the condition. I guess it is true what they say “The sh!t don’t fall far from the bat.”

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(30) comments

made58 April 6, 2014

Reblogged this on MadeleineMaya.

Reply
amaezed March 5, 2014

The war between the sexes didn’t just hap-hazardously appear. It came about slowly, creepily. We as a society slowly adjusted to ALL influences surrounding us. The movies, books et al. It was everywhere. Rules and regulations. The feminist movement. Divorce. Lawyers. Labels. Them Vs Us. Fashion. We all succumbed to “just the way it is”. The economy had a huge effect on relationships. Women had to work. It said so in the feminist manual. It said so in the financial manual. The next generation lost their sense of direction. Parents thought that, that was enough to love their kids from afar. The Family as an institution was looked upon as an extinct species…and if your relationship passed the 7 year mark then there must of been something wrong with it. Life wasn’t respected. Love was abandoned when prenuptial agreements killed trust. Every kid I speak to has some disorder, some infraction or malaise. She did this…..he did that….she’s like this………………………..one finger pointing at them…3 back at you and one at god. We look at ourselves for salvation. “When the power of love overcomes the love of power. The world will know peace”.
http://amaezed.wordpress.com/love/

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godtisx March 2, 2014

I don’t think ‘Urban,’ schools have any more instance of abused kids than non urban ones, as I’ve met a significant amount of adults who were not in them, who were abused or neglected by parents. And with all kinds of mental illness now, why I think few people (ever) are really equipped to raise without ultimately harming a child in a major way.

Anyway, one of the reasons narcs get away with this type of behavior (ever), is because most people want to give others the benefit of the doubt. We want people to be okay, not creepy or ill, not CRAZY!

And by crazy I mean, having no cap on their behavior toward others, so therefore responses can become way over the top unhealthy.

The best part to this story is the wisdom he now has around what people can become. The world is not just full of people who are wonder and light, wanting to do the good thing. There are actually people who literally can’t get to that aim…

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amaezed March 2, 2014

If I may chime in here…I have tons of experience with Feminists groups and while I can appreciate their surfacing, it is exclusive. Humanistic approaches encompasses both genders in discussion and outcomes. Why a group would want to disallow half the population beggars belief. To me it’s incestuous. Weird behaviour starts with abusive parents, who in turn were abused. Breaking that paradox would be the smarter way to go.
http://amaezed.wordpress.com/love/happy-wives-club/

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    navigator1965 March 2, 2014

    Amaezed, you have earned yourself a follow which such an insightful comment.

    Ideological/gender/radical feminists suffer from a specific form of gender narcissism, BTW, which explains feminism’s exclusiveness. Book’s coming out shortly, first of two.

    Reply
KarinKateriKei March 1, 2014

I’m not sure that age has anything to do with determining red flags. I married very young and my first dating experience subsequent, I was targeted by a Narc. If anything, I think my age and experience as a mother and seasoned human, employee, friend made my pool of empathy deeper for what initially presented as quirks and not red flags. I have nothing but sympathy for this man. No justice here at all, must have been in Canada… I am interested to know the percentage of male v. female targets of Narcissists. Glad to see the other side presented, balance is very important for all issues.

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    navigator1965 March 1, 2014

    Canada may even be worse than the US for blatant feminist court bias. It probably varies by state and province.

    Reply
      KarinKateriKei March 1, 2014

      It may and I can only speak to what I’ve heard on the news and personal knowledge of a case or two. I think it’s critical in this day and age, to adjudicate on facts and not gender. Feminism is a wonderful tool for balance, gender bias that corrupts those principles is not.

      Reply
        navigator1965 March 1, 2014

        Karin,

        I will respectfully disagree with you regarding the utility and benevolent nature of feminism. My experience in Canadian courts was far, far worse than what the gent in this post suffered–his experience was trivial by comparison.

        When you analyze it correctly, feminism is definitely not about equality and human rights, its false claims to the contrary notwithstanding. Feminism actually acts to harm women, men, children, and society.

        Reply
          KarinKateriKei March 1, 2014

          I don’t know the particulars of your case and so offer no opinion on that. I agree men are often judged by the antiquated views of individuals. Feminism however, is not the cause of that and so we respectfully disagree.

          Reply
          navigator1965 March 1, 2014

          Thank you for your kind and civil reply, Karin. When my book is finished, may I send you a complimentary e-copy for your consideration? I’ve gotten rather positive feedback from a variety of test readers (which you’re welcome to look at), the majority of whom are women.

          themirrorbooks@gmail.com, but only if you’re interested. No worries if you’re not or too busy.

          Cheers.

          Reply
alm383 March 1, 2014

العدل اثاث الملك اذا توفر المناخ الصحي والعدل والثقافة البنائة ليس الثقافة الاستهلاكية الهشة او الحرية المفرطة انتهت هذة الظواهر من المجتمع والعنصرية بين الطبقات او الصراع الموهوم بين الرجل والمراة

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girlscientist March 1, 2014

I’m sorry that this man had to go through this – he was definitely failed by the legal system, which should have protected him from this woman.

But notice that at no point he called his stalker a “dangerous crazy bitch.” That description was given in the title by Tara Palmatier. I have no idea why she would use an expression which has probably been used against every single woman who’s every been abused in a relationship. But I know that she’s pretty close to Paul Elam, a Canadian scam artist who encourages violent misogynists to stalk women who have slighted them in their imagination under the guise of “men’s rights activism”. I’m not going to link you to his website, A Voice for Men, but you can google it if you have the stomach for it (“dangerous crazy bitch” is mild compared to what is said about women on that site). Here are some of the things Paul Elam – who Tara Palmatier is friendly with – has said:
http://manboobz.com/2013/10/18/paul-elam-of-a-voice-for-men-in-his-own-words/

I completely understand that you want to give a voice to abused men – they get often ignored, and the pain of the man telling this story (and many others) is real. The narrative of “man abuses woman” drowns out the sorrow of everyone who is in a situation that diverges from that. It’s unfortunate that men only have Palmatier to turn to, and that in turn you only have her posts to reblog (I’ve read some of her blog and listened to her podcast, and she comes over like she wants to be part of the boys’s club, in a way that is very unprofessional for a therapist). But letting expressions like “crazy bitch” through is very likely to trigger very negative memories in the women reading your blog.

I would be very interested to know what your position is on this.

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    Kim Saeed March 1, 2014

    GirlScientist,

    Thank you very much for your insight and for sharing the link…

    I realize that the title is a somewhat offensive one. I haven’t been able to find a lot of resources for men who are victims of disordered women. At the same time, I personally know a girl similar to the one in the article in my social circle. While I personally don’t use this kind of language in general, I found the rest of the article to be informative and useful. I chose this particular post so readers could compare and contrast behaviors of disordered men and women who are in the same cluster.

    Reply
bethbyrnes March 1, 2014

Very insightful. A terrible situation.

My only reservation about this man is that he was mature enough age-wise to have seen the first red flags and cut off contact. It seems to me that he did encourage her and as you have said, there is a kind of symbiosis between the victimizer and the victim that seems to be at work here.

In my case, I was very young and naive when a narcissist arrived in my life. I would not have made that mistake (of getting involved with him) had I just been ten years older and more aware of myself and the world. But, I had a very restrictive father and I know that it was one reason I was drawn to authoritative men. Luckily, my current SO has none of those traits and I like to believe it is because I have resolved at least some of my own issues.

That said, it is useful to read this anecdote. I would want to know what this man believes was the reason he was vulnerable to this predator.

Often, we project onto others, behavior that we ourselves are prone to, so I see these situations as complex.

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    Kim Saeed March 2, 2014

    Thank you for commenting, Beth.

    I have corresponded with several men of disordered women, and while I cannot claim to be an expert in this situation, it seems they all have a “Hero Complex” where they felt they had to rescue the woman from the world and from herself…

    There are many similarities between the male Narc v. female victim and female Narc. v. male victim. However, it seems there are some distinct personality traits of women who are disordered and how these behaviors affect their targets. I would need to do research on this because my area of knowledge lies in my own experience and that of other women who were victims of male Narcs.

    I can say that my Ex’s sister exhibited many Narcissistic traits, and as I mentioned in the article, I know a young lady who has BPD, so I am familiar with some of the behaviors…I have wondered, too, if men allow their physical attraction to a woman to cause them to overlook red flags. I’ve interacted with a few women who became victims of Narcs where this was the case.

    And then, we have the vibrational and subconscious attraction that you spoke of…

    Reply
      Peter March 5, 2014

      Men want to protect their women and women want to be protected by their men – nothing could be more normal, more natural. However in my experience female narcissist very deliberately prey on this instinct. So this “Hero Complex” is actually something the narcissist woman is bringing out in the man – the narcissist woman acts like an innocent angel who needs to be saved, and then lets the man think that he is saving her, and that she is very thankful for that, which of course makes him feel great and intensifies his love.

      Meanwhile the narcissist woman has somehow gained access and control over the man’s mind through the man’s sympathy, through the man’s pity. And this goes completely unnoticed, I think we have a blind spot there, I certainly had one. Because hey, who on Earth would do something that evil and pointless and why, it’s so inhuman it just doesn’t even cross our mind.

      Reply
        Kim Saeed March 5, 2014

        Great comment, Peter, and a great comparison to how male narcissists take advantage of a woman’s natural instinct to care for and nurture her partner.

        Reply
      Peter March 5, 2014

      Thank you, Kim. I wanted to add that in my case I found two reasons why she actually did all this, what her (probably automatic, subconscious) intentions, motivations with me were:

      1. To turn me into a source of narcissistic supply, a battery of some sort, well as an INFJ I guess I was an abundant supply..

      2. To torment and eventually completely destroy me psychologically. (That’s another reason why I tried to do the same, to return the favor.)

      When I finally internalized her mind quite accurately (the stuff that INFJs do, except this time I internalized the mind of a non-human, I seem to have survived the process with little damage), I found a need to “kill”, to destroy others so deep it doesn’t end.. like it was an infinite black well of more-or-less unconscious hatred. It’s like her life, her very existence depended on the need to subjugate, to destroy others, it’s the only thing that can make her exist.

      So yeah I guess.. lot of similarities between the male and female narcissist.

      Reply
armyofangels2013 March 1, 2014

Kim, I so agree that the effect these relationships has on children is seriously overlooked. As a teacher, I see the effects on a daily basis. Breaking the cycle is key-encouraging self-efficacy and worthiness will make a difference!

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    Kim Saeed March 2, 2014

    Army,

    I have seen that, too. I taught in my local city school district for 2.5 years, just having left last May. What some of the children live with at home makes them old way beyond their years. Many of them go on to become bullies. The sad part is that there is very little chance of reaching these children short of getting CPS involved, and even then, that doesn’t always help. The schools in my area are “Urban” by nature, so there is very little parental involvement and little nurturing. As an example, one of my Kindergarten students once came to class…he’d been vomiting that morning and his parents sent him to school with a plastic bag so he could use that to get sick into.

    I really loved teaching, but circumstances have pointed me in another direction 🙂 Well, that and the fact my Ex stalked me at the various schools I taught in.

    Reply
      armyofangels2013 March 2, 2014

      Finding the direction we should go…I am inspired by how when circumstances beyond your control invaded your life, you took charge of what was within your control!
      There is an organization online “cdv.org” Children of Domestic Violence…They have put together an educational program aimed at educators and others who work with children called “Change a Life”- I have found myself to be called to be a “seed planter and nurturer” within the school system. My voice was lost for a long time-I emerged from the fire stronger than I ever knew was possible!

      Reply
navigator1965 March 1, 2014

Excellent post, Kim. Thank you. It’s tough for guys, given how fundamentally gender biased judges typically are. It also is valuable to see information on the borderline personality, as these individuals are closely related to narcissists.

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amaezed March 1, 2014

Thanks for this balanced post. There are two types of violence. Physical and psychological. Both are as bad as each other. Women due to their physical gender tend to enact the latter. An argument usually starts with verbals and ends with physical. The psychological is less evident if not outright non-existent in terms of litigation and harder to impossible to prove. Therefore men find themselves out in the open (lost houses, bank accounts, property and kids) more often. Not to mention dear friends. I strongly believe that disputes between the sexes shouldn’t be a legal issues but social. The kids suffer as a consequence of divorced parents or separated partners. Emphasis should be put on picking partners wisely and leaving at strike one, from either side of the fence. I think education is prudent. Lastly, be happy if you have a good relationship. Don’t go to divorcees for advice. It will always be bad. Divorce is an epidemic but is the single most important institution we have. Thanks again.
http://amaezed.wordpress.com/love/happy-wives-club/

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    Kim Saeed March 1, 2014

    Very relevant information here…I think the effect these types of relationships has on children is way overlooked and, in fact, perpetuates the cycle of abuse and disordered personalities.

    Reply
      amaezed March 1, 2014

      Yes, kids are used as pawns to alienate the other. Parental Alienation Syndrome (PAS). I love my marriage and would do anything to keep it together. I had a loving relationship with my mum and dad. My son is my light and my wife an angel.

      Reply
Teela Hart March 1, 2014

It is a travesty of justice that your evidence was not allowed by the judge. It seems to me there are should be legal ramifications for this action.

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    Kim Saeed March 1, 2014

    I agree, Teela…

    Reply
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