Narcissists and Money

By Kim Saeed | Contemplating No Contact

May 22
narcissists and money

All across the internet, people are searching the topic of Narcissists and their relationship with money.  Typically, each type of Narcissist uses money for a specific agenda, which I have outlined below.

When it comes to money, there are generally four types of Narcissistic tendencies:

1-  The Moocher 

If this particular Narcissist manages to stick it out long enough to get a college degree, it eventually becomes useless because The Moocher destroys all opportunities in their field due to a sketchy job history and their propensity to quit at the slightest provocation.   

They struggle with staying employed because they cannot tolerate authority figures, seeing any sort of constructive criticism or feedback as a personal attack.  They are the ones who often find a way to go on disability and/or take advantage of government assistance, along with deceiving various family members and partners.

swimming-in-money

The Moocher keeps a running ledger in their mind for any (and I mean ANY) amount of money they spend on you.  My colleague Carrie, from Ladywithatruck, said her Ex once gave her an itemized invoice for things he felt she owed him, including forty-five cents he’d chipped in when she’d bought a slushy. Yes, they are that petty.

Due to their sense of entitlement, they feel deserving of other people’s money, too.  I once knew a Narcissist who would make hundreds of dollars after receiving a bill for their personal property taxes. 

They’d go to their partner claiming it was their responsibility to pay, then they’d also tell a sob story to their two siblings about how they just couldn’t afford it and would get the total from each of them, too.  So, for a five-hundred dollar tax bill, the Narcissist came out one-thousand dollars ahead.

When you read forums and chat boards where victims of Narcissistic abuse were drained of all of their finances, they are generally referring to this type of Narcissist.  The victim is the one who ends up paying all the bills such as rent, utilities, car payments, vacations, and everything else while their no-good partner lays out of work and plays hop-scotch with employers until finally, they either succeed at getting disability for some bogus condition, end up as a car salesman, or selling supplemental policies for Aflac. 

Alternately, they speak of starting a business that never finds its way into creation.

While they’ve never owned their own home or signed a lease for an apartment, they almost always have flashy cars and designer clothes.  They want everyone to think they are wealthy and tasteful, but once someone falls for The Moocher, they realize it’s all a cover-up.

2- The Dollar Lama 

Makes moderate to high-level income and uses it as a weapon.  Usually, Dollar Lamas are male, and convince their wife, fiancé, or girlfriend to leave her career in order to help him out at home or in his business.  He derives his sense of power and authority through making his partner financially dependent on him by convincing her she doesn’t need to work, have a bank account, or have access to money. 

Of course, it all seems convincing when The Dollar Lama promises he will take care of her, but it only takes a short while to learn the hard truth.

narcissists and moneyIf he does agree to let her be a joint owner on any accounts, he scours the finances with a fine-toothed comb.  She cannot spend five dollars without asking his permission, otherwise there is Hell to pay.  He destroys any self-esteem she has by reminding her that she is “living off of him” and that she would likely not be hired anywhere again. 

He threatens his partner with withdrawal of resources. And he will often make good on this when she’s most counting on them being there.  If she doesn’t comply with his impossible demands, he cuts off her cell phone, leaves her without gas money, constantly threatens to kick her out of their shared residence, and will even fire her if she’s on his payroll.

By the time the relationship comes to an end, his partner feels unemployable because she’s worked for him for years, has no real resume, and she can’t obtain a recommendation.

3- The Maestro of Deafening Silence 

Makes a lot of money and thinks it’s their only obligatory contribution to the relationship.  Coincidentally, this type is usually associated with highly educated Narcissists with careers such as CEO, MD, Attorney, Psychologist, and so on.  Scrooge_mc_Duck

This type of Narcissist buys their partner and their children lavish homes/gifts/vacations to keep them appeased.  But they show little to no emotion and that’s why their partners are so unhappy. 

Most of us enjoy material things, but at the end of the day, what we want most is to feel loved, accepted, and acknowledged.  However, since this Narcissist doesn’t offer any of those sentiments, their partner accepts the material provisions because there’s nothing else offered in the relationship. 

Except, eventually they find that even the best trip or jewelry cannot fulfill the need for love.

Whether you have your own successful career or are a stay-at-home mom, you become frustrated with your partner and he becomes angry with you because his perspective is that you’re being ungrateful for all the wealth he’s provided for you and your children over the years.  Sadly, he is unlikely to change and become that sensitive, caring, and supportive man you thought you married.

As punishment, The Maestro of Deafening Silence ignores you.  This is their way of destroying you without lifting a finger.  After all, they surely cannot behave as a mere mortal.  Their God complex simply won’t allow for that.

4 – The Self-Appointed Princess

male victims of female narcissistsHas a college degree, perhaps even a PhD, but because of her out-of-control entitlement issues, thinks her adult responsibilities cease to exist when she enters into a relationship.  With this one, her money is hers and YOUR money is hers.

The Self-Appointed Princess believes by virtue of her being female, men should kneel at her feet and worship the ground she walks on.  She has a large wardrobe filled with the latest fashions, owns the current model of BMW, and spends thousands a year on plastic surgery.  

You should feel you’ve been anointed by the Gods if she gives you a second’s worth of attention.

Her sense of entitlement typically doesn’t stop when she becomes a mother, either.  In fact, raising a family with The Self-Appointed Princess means having another permanent dependent on your taxes because she’ll never go back to work after having children.  

And guess what your children will learn if they have a mother like this?

Narcissists love money more than anything because it fulfills their selfish agendas, allows them to control and manipulate others, and helps them project the false persona they want everyone to see.

It’s in your best interest to start recognizing the signs if any of them apply to you. This will allow you to make better choices in your best interest, and that of your children.

Copyright 2016 Let Me Reach and Kim Saeed

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(53) comments

Niecy February 21, 2017

Hello,

Thanks for this article. I am away from my mom and living with my dad. My dad (after talking to her on the phone) told me that mom said that I was ungrateful because I wasn’t wearing all of the clothes she’s bought me–and she bought LOTS of clothes. She even have LOTS of clothes in her closet and in credit card debt. But when I brung it up on the phone, she tells me that dad made it up and that he was twisting her words around.

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Momof2 January 10, 2016

Reblogged this on My World and commented:
My mom felt Jerry was using me for my money.

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Kimberly August 19, 2015

OMG!!! You described my second Narc to a T (moocher). The first one was much more subtle. Anyway, thank you!!! When I left (#2), I was financially drained of ALL of my savings, not to mention emotionally, mentally, etc. I am still recovering. However, I am now in a healthy relationship with a wonderful man and I searched & searched for ANY and I do mean ANY red flag prior to getting serious and then I searched after that as well. Thankfully, this awesome man is healthy mentally and emotionally and we have a healthy normal relationship as it should be. I am grateful to have survived both failed marriages with narcs!!!!

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    Kim Saeed August 25, 2015

    I’m sorry you got involved with a moocher (my Ex was also The Moocher)…however, I am very happy to know you’ve found a partner who is good for you. Thank you for sharing your success story!

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Angel June 26, 2015

My N and I broke up a year ago and as if I wasn’t convinced the first round, I went back with him a year later only to realized that, yup, he’s a nut. So now we’re over for good. I hung up on him mid conversation–because he loves to hear himself talk–and never contacted him again.

He waited me out thinking I would eventually break down but I didn’t. I was feeling great. And then he started calling. Leaving msgs because I owe HIM money–about $1500. So now he sees this is for real and he keeps calling under the guise of wanting to resolve the “business”, how it’s not personal, he doesn’t care about me he just wants his money. It’s all BS bc he doesn’t need it or really want it..just an excuse to bother me. If I had it to pay back I’d do it in a heartbeat just to be rid of him. I’ve blocked him and he called my second line; blocked him there too. It’s all “how dare u block me when u owe me money.”

I wish I had it to pay him back, but he’d probably just find another reason to call.

I’m enlisting the help of my older brother tomorrow to call him and threaten him to leave me alone. I hope that works because I can’t get any peace. What angers me the most–and it shouldn’t bc I know it’s a narc trait–is the way he acts as though Im such a horrible person and he’s the self sacrificing one who did all he could for the relationship. Must be nice to be able to convince urself into believing ur god’s gift and blaming everyone else when u mess up. Neat trick; then u never have to take responsibility for anything. It’s so unfair! I want to call him and cuss him out so bad, but I wont give him the satisfaction. No matter how he pretends I know the NC is killing him, and that’s my only consolation.

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PD April 8, 2015

I married a physician that used the The Dollar Lama method and it worked well because she knew that I was working on my PhD and needed to focus on my work. Every time, I heard her complain about money I would mention that I would go to work, she pleaded oh no! don’t work it would take from your studies, besides I make enough for both of us. Unfortunately, I was depending on her, which cost me my Ph.D. studies at one institution but I transferred my credits. Then she discarded/ emasculated me i.e., kicked my out of the house 11 months after we adopted a baby. This was a brazen lack of empathy as I concluded I became homeless. Although, she said I could stay, I our marriage dissolved because she showed me her true face. It was all about the show, for instance, my husband is working on a PhD. But as I neared the end of my course, she guilt tripped me to that point that my courses slipped out of my hand. I guess she feared that, I too would be called doctor. I told my good if her ever so me act out because of my PhD. slap me. I confronted her parents and they confirmed she suffers from NPD. I wish someone would have told me before we adopted. Now I have to stay in touch with her because of our daughter.

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Robin Cuahonte March 30, 2015

What about the one who makes a lot of money, pays for all meals, entertainment etc., owns his home free and clear, has 7 high dollar cars, shops at Neiman’s, but whose girlfriend struggles, drives a 12 year old unreliable car, but won’t help her because it’s “not his responsibility”. Ugh. Never was able to figure that one out. I figured an N would want to hold that over your head – have you be financially dependent. ???

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    Kim Saeed March 30, 2015

    Robin, there are some who make a lot of money and use that money to enhance the image they want to project to the world. But, as you pointed out, you can accurately judge their character by whether they’re willing to help someone in need, especially if they truly have “feelings” for that person. But, since they don’t have feelings for anyone but themselves, they typically don’t help anyone out unless there is some type of benefit for them. (The dinners and entertainment are simply ways to keep himself entertained while keeping his targets hooked. Plus, he has the added benefit of being seen in public as the “nice” guy who “pampers” his “girlfriend”.)

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Louise Fulford January 7, 2015

Hi there all….I came across this post which I know is a bit old now because I googled ‘my ex Narc owes me money’. This is the second time The relationship has ended …and part of the reason (a small part…because it was mostly how much I missed him) was because he had finally got a job and thought he might be able to pay me back the money he owed me ( haha what a joke!)…..we first split up in August 2014 when I asked him to leave my flat (where he was living and not paying any rent, bills, kept promising he was looking for work but actually just sat smoking not the sofa looking at porn or Tv and drinking). I snapped and asked him to leave then one evening when I got back from an afternoon with friends he grabbed me and tried to throttle me. I called the police and he was arrested…not before he smashed furniture and broke his own hand thumping walls. I vowed never to let him back into my life but, just eight weeks later, after a few weeks of NC during which he sent me abusive text messages, then begging ” I miss you so much” messages then attempted (so he said) suicide, I agreed to meet him as it was his birthday. He told me he was in therapy and not drinking any more….he seemed so different and yes, you guessed it guys, we ended up back together. He seemed calmer, less swearing shouting and drinking and I so wanted to believe he had changed and would keep improving. He got a job (as a salesman 😉 …and sold the car that I (!) had bought him as he was given a company car. I am such a sap that instead of taking the whole £1500 ($3000) back I just took £500 so he had some money to tide him over till his first pay packet. I should mention that when we were together first time around I paid for so much, he was constantly ‘forgetting his wallet’ or asking me to help out when his two daughters came to stay, promising to pay me back. Anyway, since his job started I October 2014 I lent him another £250 …one occasion he rang me from a hotel in the town he works in begging me to lend him £125 so he didn’t have to drive his car home and risk his licence. Now I think he was probably just with another woman… Or man, and wanted to show off by getting a hotel room….crazily, I feel bad for saying that!!! So, NYE 2015 rolls around and he had started drinking heavily again … Yes, he took me out for lunch, he bought me a pair of boots, but the old sneering snappy abusive man was sneaking back in…he hated his job, he hated living with his Mum (where he went back to when I kicked him out) , he wanted to watch porn when we had sex and that was always on his terms and often when he was drunk :(. So, Why am I writing all this? I am trying to go no contact and the hardest part is facing that I will never see the £2k he owes me…..money I saved to do work on my house, that I worked hard for and went without things for. What did he do for it??? Nothing, sweet FA. I just want to warn all you ladies and men who See a narcissist red flag…get out, and if you don’t get out, don’t lend them money. And don’t go back….they NEVER change ….much as I wish they could. It’s hard to stay strong and accept that money is gone, that he won’t suddenly realise this debt needs to be paid …..I am hoping that therapy will help me let go of this illusion 🙁 thanks for reading guys.

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Teetee December 22, 2014

I live with a narcissis And it feels like hell !!! She lives off my boyfriends check and reminds him most of the time that HE LIVES OFF of HER! when in general it’s his money. She makes it hard for us to move out because whenever my boyfriend tells her he’s leaving she makeup lies like”You two will never make it” or “You two are going to be back living with me” or that my boyfriend isn’t responsible, when in fact he is responsible enough to live on his own. Now we came to a point where she stopped gambling and is letting everything fall apart, for example: she didn’t pay rent, she’s allowing her bills to get higher to the point where NOW She does need his money. Everything was fine till we decided to get us a place. I forgot to mention that he gets paid at least 800$ but she only allows him to have 250$ out of it ! NOT FAIR TO HIM. He deserves at least half. I think by her letting bills pile up and to sit around and depend on her son, is what she’s trying to do… Its a cry for help as always!!! She doesn’t understand that we have a baby and we need more space. She only cares about the money… What should I do? If I say anything a big gigantic fight starts and she always manipulate her son into thinking. We are leaving her on purpose. That’s not the case, Imay also be ppregnant so therefore we do need a place now and all his money. Sometimes she make me feel as if my boyfriend and I are rushing to move out and that its going to be a mistake that we did so. Oh by the way we are both in our 20s, She is Fourty-Something. Is there a way I could tell my boyfriend without him getting mad?

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Eighty-Six The Rolls, Arguing With A Narcissist. | 18mitzvot: Narcissism. Grief. Recovery. Yiddishkeit. September 3, 2014

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Torquoisesky July 20, 2014

This is interesting….I am not sure if my ex was unique in that his style changed after we separated. When we were together, I would say he fit the mooch description, as he had his own business but wasn’t overly motivated to work – he would take off in the middle of the week to go fishing or golfing. Of course, that meant no work was being done nor any soliciting for work for the following week so it was a vicious cycle of no money in week 1 or most of week 2 and sometimes 3. When he did make money he kept it for himself and it was a fight to get him to pay any household bills so of course I paid them. Eventually I made him change a portion of the bills to his name and he would pay them because he didn’t want to ruin his credit. He would complain though. The power was in his name so he would bitch about me leaving lights on, watching tv, etc; He was supposed to fill the oil tank and would wait until it was really cold before he would do it (and this was the only way to have heat in the house). TV was his responsibility (because he liked to have the porn channels so I didn’t want that in my name. Surprisingly he never complained about that bill but the TV was his all the time – he would come into the room and change the channel if I was watching something). He would get loans for his brothers without discussing it with me – that meant any money he did make went to that first….so you can see how frustrating this could be (his brothers usually could not make the payments and so he would). We lived in a dumpy old house that was the ONLY one he would consider because it was near his family and he promised to renovate it (7 years went by and he did NOTHING). I never got to take any trips in the 10 years we were married – he did take several and always had money to golf, etc but I was stuck paying bills…..and trying to save money, which he made impossible. Anytime I got a little saved, there would be something that needed repair, etc and of course, his money would be “tied up” paying his brothers’ loans, or buying equipment for the shop, etc. He would also buy golf equipment, clothes, etc instead of being a man and contributing to the household. Interesting to realize that his mother and brothers are also narcs – they were always expecting him to pay them a salary from the business because it was his father’s biz (none of them wanted to work in it but they wanted a profit share – laughable as it wasn’t even making enough money to support my ex who was doing the work!). One brother would say “you have lots of money, you don’t have kids” – I guess since I worked and their wives didn’t they thought we were loaded! His mother was always bumming money too.
After we separated he went out west to work and is now making a huge salary. Even though he is a liar, I know the wages out there are high for the trades he has so he would be making a substantial income. Whenever he has a chance to contact me (we are trying to finalize a divorce that he has been dragging out for years) he makes sure to tell me how happy he is, how many trips he has taken, how much he likes his new truck, that he is building a house, and so on. He is currently with a new victim – a young woman (half his age) who he says he is having a kid with (he has never confirmed that the child has been born). So, in her case, I would suspect he will be a combo of type 2 and 3. FYI the amounts his brothers are asking for now are higher. The reason I know about that is due to only being separated. When he tried to borrow a substantial amount to save his brother’s house (70,000!), I had to provide a letter to confirm that he wasn’t paying me support……so, it’s clear that his brothers will always be asking, and again interesting to realize they are narcs too. (I suspect his mother is the reason they are all this way, and also why they disrespect women – out of 5 brothers, 4 are divorced and abuse is a common denominator in each).
Finding forums about NARCS has been helpful, as I really didn’t know what he was (is). I will never know how he is with his new partner but I know how he was with me, and knowing that he is classic narc makes it a little less confusing although not less painful. I find it sickening that they can treat people like this and not feel any guilt or remorse.

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Stephanie Reed July 15, 2014

mine was a mixture of the maestro and the moocher. he made decent money and thought that entitled him to be treated like a god and never have to do anything, never mind that i also had a full time job and was taking care of our child and his step child when we had him, but he also thought that entitled him to buy anything he wanted whether we really could afford it or not, so there were a lot of bounced checks and necessary bills we couldn’t pay because he had to have a new flat screen tv or a new vehicle because he was bored with the one he only had a year, so he would go to family members (and dipped into his retirement and also accounts my father had set up for our daughter’s college fund) and tell them how i spent all his money and we couldn’t afford to pay such and such bill. i handled the money and paid the bills, but he spent it out from under me without telling me and even lying about it. so glad i got out of that financial mess. well, i am still in it because of the mortgage with my name on it that he was living in but not paying (and then abandoned it), but at least i am no longer married to the jerk, and i handle my own finances a whole lot better without him interfering, even without him paying what he is supposed to. and do damage control the best i can with the mortgage.

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    Kim Saeed July 16, 2014

    Wow, Stephanie, sounds a lot like someone I used to know 😉

    I’m glad you got out of that situation. Thank you for stopping by and for commenting <3

    Reply

[…]  Remember how you bought your grandmother a gift, knowing that he needed that money?  What about when you took the day off because your child was sick…didn’t you know he was waiting for your paycheck to pay his personal taxes? How dare you even think of giving two dollars to the Salvation Army bell-ringer?  When are you ever going to get with the program and stop being so selfish?  How do you live with yourself? (Read more about Narcissists and money here). […]

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Annette July 10, 2014

I want to say THANK YOU for the recent reply you sent me with regard to no contact with my ex-narc of 7 1/2 years. You pointed out that every single Narc wants their partner to think it is their fault and that by the words of his last email he was trying to convince me I had hope of a future with him if I “fixed” myself. Initially, he was a moocher the first 6 years until he got his medical license back and then he was the Maestro! I literally took care of him when he didn’t have $10 to his name, his own family disowned him etc., etc., Unfortunately, I made the big mistake of trusting him and knew he could get his license back if he did all the requirements. He got his license back and turned into the Maestro instantly! Over the last 1 1/2 years, I have constantly heard how I don’t appreciate a ____ thing! If I ever asked anything he thought was inappropriate, I was cussed and told to get my _____ stuff and get out. Of course, the cussing stories go on and on. After a 1 1/2 years of dealing with that when he went to work I packed and left. It has been three months and I realize he had me so brainwashed that I am still doing the woulda, coulda, shoulda stuff in my head. I try to think if I miss him so bad exactly what am I missing – the cussings, the way he was always so sneaky, the smart cut downs and comments, calling me stupid, etc., etc. I am sure I miss the perks with the trips, gifts, etc., but I am trying to be strong and I am on a mission to stay NO CONTACT! I have my own career and will be fine but it is definitely taking time…one day at a time. I love this site it has been a tremendous help!! Thank you!!!

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Anonymous May 31, 2014

Kim, I have read many of your writings. This one has grabbed me in a completely different and unexpected way. I’m 20 years in with a #3 and I have not worked in 15 years. There is no intimacy, no touch, no emotions. It’s no wonder I feel like I am going crazy. With 2 boys ages 11 and 14, I just don’t see it changing for a while. Can you share tips for regaining the self-esteem this type of living arrangement without getting a divorce? He is not abusive. I am simply ignored. A very lonely way of existing. My soul is crumbling slowly.

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    Kim Saeed May 31, 2014

    Anonymous, I can recommend some healing suggestions, but they would only be so helpful if you were to stay inside of the emotionally abusive relationship. It would be like going out on the beach with SPF 5 protection.

    I’m not promoting divorce by any means, but I do know that staying in this type of relationship is very damaging to the soul. Being ignored is often even worse than verbal abuse because the Narcissist makes you feel as though you don’t even exist.

    With all that said, the most helpful things you can do are: guided meditations on self-esteem (I have some here and there are others on YouTube), diffusing essential oils (lavender, rose, Melissa – you can find more under my “Healing Tools” tab), and reading the books that I have listed under the healing tools tab. You might be able to find them at your local library. I also have an Amazon store on the right side of the page with other suggested readings and tools. If you have someone in your area that offers Reiki, you might want to see about getting an appointment.

    Doing all of these things together is the best approach to healing. Best of luck. I offer consultations and coaching if you think that would be beneficial for you.

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Steph May 24, 2014

My Narc was a moocher. He tried to convince me to buy him a used Mercedes. He told me that buying him the car would show him how much I loved him. He spent days trying to convince me that he deserved it and I would be able to drive it also. Ha like I care about driving a fancy car. It made me realize how shallow he was and is.

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    Kim Saeed May 26, 2014

    Steph, it seems you didn’t buy the car 😉 Good for you. He probably would have driven off into the sunset, never to be seen again…

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      Torquoisesky July 20, 2014

      Wow – my ex got me to buy him a truck and never made a payment even though he had said he would; When things were going downhill near the end he tried to get me to obtain a loan for a new Honda and also some property he wanted (a total of 65K). I told him to go ahead and get the loans himself because something told me I would be stuck paying it. And yes, he tried to convince me for weeks….and he was not happy that I would not comply.

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        Kim Saeed July 22, 2014

        Soooo glad you didn’t fall for that!

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aveline07 May 24, 2014

Kim I see aspects of mostly #1 right now, but #3 during our marriage as well. Again, you are very astute about your observations, and I continue to feel stupid at how I was fooled. I look back now and see how months before he “checked” out, he slowly liquidated our resources, separated finances…oh I have to not think about it, but also need to face it. Thanks for continuing to write…you continue to edge me forward with each one.

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Sofia Leo May 23, 2014

My narc-ex was a combination of #1 and #2, changing to suit current finances and situation. He drained me dry while reminding me that he “supported” ME, doling out the money he forced me to give him like it was a gift from him. So glad to be shot of that asshat!

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    Kim Saeed May 23, 2014

    Sofia, this sounds very similar to my own experience! I got a chuckle from your last sentence 😉

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kimberlyharding May 23, 2014

Great point- they feel ENTITLED to other people’s money!

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kansastec May 23, 2014

The Maestro of Deafening Silence – This definitely was my ex husband. He totally ignored me most of the time. He did buy the children and I a lot of nice gifts but if you don’t have any kind of relationship other than that then there is no relationship. I was married for 30 years. Always pumping him up constantly completely exhausted me. It was always all about him.

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    Kim Saeed May 23, 2014

    I’m sorry you had to endure that, Kansastec. It makes for a lonely life…as much as we love our children, the invalidating silence from a spouse or significant other can really take it’s toll. I hope now that you’re out of that situation, you’re making it all about you, which will enhance your relationship with yourself as well as your children 🙂

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SketchyOKgirl May 23, 2014

Kim,
I’ve only recently figured out that my husband is a Narc. Since finding your site I have read every post and I want to tell you how spot on you are and how much I appreciate you and your work. Every time I read one of your posts and finally understand what was really happening in my marriage, it’s like pieces of my soul are being returned to me. I feel myself getting stronger. Thank you so much for what you do. Your insights are priceless. On a side note my Narc is the last one and when I finally stood up for myself he “decided” that I wasn’t a SAHM for our children, I was just lazy.

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    Kim Saeed May 23, 2014

    SketchyOKgirl,

    If I may interject, being a stay-at-home-mom is the opposite of being lazy. One evening with my five-year old is enough to wear me out! Love him, though 🙂

    I’m sure you are aware that he’s just trying to bring you down when he says that, and make you feel that all the contributions you’ve made to the marriage and raising your children are worthless. You and I know how much you’ve put in. His words are really just a reflection of how juvenile and petty he is.

    Thank you for letting me know how much my posts have helped you. Yours is the kind of encouragement that keeps me going 🙂 <3

    Reply
      Healing July 15, 2014

      Had to reply to this…my Narc ex repeatedly said he should have more (aka “all”) the say in every decision because he “brought more to the table” (aka “money”). He even said this to our lousy therapist. He thought I had it easy being a stayhome mom yet he’d readily admit that when he had his kids from a prior marriage alone with him for an entire weekend he was exhausted and ready to hand them off to his ex wife by Sunday. But admitting that it was hard for him to be a ‘mom’ and transitioning that feeling to “empathy” for ME being a fulltime mom is just inconceivable…it somehow doesn’t line up in their brain which is what is involved in order to have empathy. So sad.

      Reply
tiredofliars8 May 23, 2014

My Narc definitely fits to a tee your last type of Narc. He was CEO of a company and had a lot of money. He used his money to appease, apologize, manipulate. I wanted for nothing financially in the relationship including lavish vacations and gifts but…yes they were in place of his lack of emotional maturity etc He would also manipulate with..”who would treat you like this and spoil you like this?” Clueless as to my complaints of his inconsistency, cold spells, silent treatments, crazymaking and shady behavior. Didn’t get that I needed to trust and feel secure in the relationship and the so called spoiling didn’t do it. After awhile you feel like you sold your soul to the devil and in fact you did.

Reply
    Fellow Survivor May 23, 2014

    Tired, I know exactly what you mean. I mentioned in my first post that the x n’s super N dad is rich. He has a 5 mil dollar house in Colorado. In one of my discussions with my x I was asking for honesty and openness. I couldn’t trust her as far as I could through a one ton weight. Anyway, she tells me ” isn’t a fabulous house to stay at in the summer and winter enough” She actual said that. Well, no, it wasn’t enough. What I wanted was a real wife that I could depend on and that just wasn’t in the cards I guess

    Reply
      tiredofliars8 May 23, 2014

      Fellow Whenever I had those types of discussions my ex would look like a “deer in headlights” Your trying to explain normal emotions and they don’t get it. They look at you like you have 10 heads. Total emotional cripples. Deep down they know it which is why they compensate with whatever resources they have that don’t involve intimacy ie sex, gifts etc. I finally told my ex after a long NC post breakup I just couldn’t go back to the chaos and his web of narcissism. I said you do know you are a narcissist right? He said a little LOL I said alot. Then he said well I don’t want you to send me any information on it because I know how you are. I said I am done trying to fix you and now I need peace. I will take away what was good in the relationship, accept it is broken permanently and move on for my mental health and sanity.

      Reply
        bamboozled1 May 23, 2014

        ooh the deer in headlights look, i know that one well! his mothers family, the lot of them, are like that, ill never forget the look on his uncles face, when i met him for the first time, went to greet him, and i got the look… like whoah… sorry! sorry! his other uncles and aunties, in greeting will often wave, like stand five steps away from you, and wave… WTF? i mean, ok, some people are like that, and i know they like me just fine, but i didnt realise how deep it really went tho, i dont know how they function now, christmas is so weird, the only one who seems untouched by it is the gay uncles partner… i agree, they know it, and they use funds to compensate… or imo… distract. its a cover up.

        Reply
      tiredofliars8 May 24, 2014

      Bamboozle Interesting you mentioned the family dynamic. My ex Narc comes from a family of narcissists. They didn’t get me at all and speaking of deer in headlights look I saw it in all of them numerous times through my years with him. The funny thing is they portrayed the “perfect” family when in fact they were the most f’ckd up family I ever met. All shallow empty shells that thought their prominence, money and the fact they went to church made them a perfect family.

      Reply
armyofangels2013 May 23, 2014

It was 100% of the first one here! He went so far as to conspire to kill the person who was between him and an inheritance…also on disability for a bogus condition…had a dream of getting rich but never took a step to work toward it…ugh

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Theynever change May 22, 2014

It’s amazing how my N of 9 months lashes out and pulls out the silent treatment when he feels he is getting too close to me or when I express my need for time empathy and consideration. He does these things but only when he wants to and they are usually short lived. We have major communication problems. He never seems to get it and whenever I enforce expectations, he says I am trying to control him and somehow everything turns around to be about me or how I am behaving!! Go figure.. What I consider construction criticism is a serious attack on his character according to him. Its a never ending cycle of tug of war and a roller coaster. When I ignore him, he is all over my line and tells me how great of a woman I am and how he loves me, etc. But the second I give him attention and express love, its almost like he shuts down and pulls out the silent treatment again saying I’m trying to control him when I look for reciprocation. I’ve gotten so used to the cycle that I am almost immune to it and can predict when the disrespectful silent treatment is coming. It looks to be his favorite weapon. I used to be a wreck worrying about it but I am about over it now. Its so draining and a waste of time. I realize now that even though he ALWAYS comes back (w/ flowers, gifts, etc) he will never change. I’ve spoken until I was blue in the face and he claims to get it only for him to turn around and do the same exact thing again. I’m going No Contact.

Reply
    Kim Saeed May 26, 2014

    Theynever, I hope by the time you get my reply you’ve been No Contact for a few days. NC really is the only way to end the crazymaking cycle and get on with your life.

    Your situation sounds very similar to mine. I’m three years out now, and I’m so glad because had I stayed, it would have been akin to running a horror film on continuous loop. You deserve better than how you’ve been treated, as I’m sure you know. You can do this…

    Reply
bamboozled1 May 22, 2014

i had the last one… it *seemed* like… everything was supposed to be that way, like it all looked good from the outside… and people would say so… but it was just so very going through the motions… and boring. and not fun. and. BORING!

i think my dad may have been like that, his parents definitely are.

its all about appearances. nothing more.

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Fellow Survivor May 22, 2014

Oh Kim, I just had to respond to this post. I have told you stories about my ex N wife and her super narc dad. Well, today was quite an adventure. My ex N used to tell me how the dad would give only barely enough to the mom to pay the bills, but never totally enough. In other words, if he thought the total bills would be $1000 he would give her $800 and then make the mom justify every penny spent before giving her the rest. This guy brags about spending $50,000 a year on his race car during the 70s but his wife had to go to second hand stores to buy cloths for the 3 girls. Sound like a narc to you?

In the 70s he was a mid level narc like you describe. But today is worth millions so he graduated to the 3rd tier.

Anyway, fast forward to today, I mean today the 22nd of May. I call my 17 Yr old daughter today to plan on exchanging auto insurance cards and within 2 seconds I could tell she was in distress. Empaths can do that. I race home to find her in tears after going through a box of UltraSofty with aloe and vitamin E tissues.

I have told you how the dad built my X a million dollar lake house just when we (me and the x) were starting to patch things up and how he bought her a brand new $30,000 ski boat the day after our divorce was final. Can you say GOLDEN CHILD.

So anyway, the worthless man known as the dad is down at his lakehouse this weekend, where he stays for 6 weeks a year to avoid paying income taxes in CO where he actually lives.

So my daughter does not want to go this weekend to the lakehouse for many very valid and reasonable reasons. My ex tells her that she has to, because her dad needs to be validated. I asked her, ” did she really use that word, validated” and she said yes she did. Then I asked her ” did your mom use Fear, Obligation, or Guilt when trying to make you go” and she said all three. Then the mom tells my daughter ” he bought that boat for you” which is bull S, my x has been begging her dad to buy a new boat for 15 years, he bought it for the x because she divorced me, the only obstacle in the way to getting to my daughter, the ultimate in N supply.( The new boat arrived one day after the divorce was final by the way) Then she tells her that the dad bought their tickets to CA for a college trip visit and she owes him. Remember, he is worth 10 Mil, a couple tickets aint no skin off his back.

So, after a box of tissues I was able to get her laughing again. Making sure she knew she was not the problem and letting her know that I knew exactly how she felt because I have been there done that.

This scene dovetailed into a conversation about how my daughter is going to have to learn to set boundaries with her mom and not let the FOG drag her down because whether she likes it or not, she is her mom and will be for ever. One of the daughters of the dad moved to Hawaii and never looked back. I thought she was the crazy one but she was actually the smart one.

Anyway, you are an excellent writer and very knowledgeable about all things NARC, maybe you could research and write an article about how to arm the children with tools to deal with their N parents without crossing the boundary of parental alienation. That is a fine line but one that must not be crossed.

Love your stuff Kim, keep on keepin on.

Reply
    Kim Saeed May 22, 2014

    Wow, thank you Fellow Survivor! It’s such an honor for you to think so highly of my writing.

    You know, with more and more Narcs being exposed, the next natural step would be to teach their children how to protect themselves. I’ll need to do some research..it may take a while, but you have a great idea. (Sounds like you did a great job with your daughter!)

    Reply
Kinetix May 22, 2014

Wow! I have no words, this is so accurate. In my case I dealt with the moocher and every thing you wrote about this type was true in my case. Thank you for helping me gain insight as I recover from that whole situation.

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    Kim Saeed May 23, 2014

    Thank you for sharing that my post has been helpful to you, Kinetix! I probably have a really good grasp on the Moocher just due to my own personal experiences.

    Wishing you all the best in your recovery <3

    Reply
    blue August 6, 2014

    I too was with the moocher He took me for everything Including a business that never left the ground though cost me nothing but debt He still feels everyone’s money should be his*and what is scary is he believes this** and my home should be his (wanted me to sell it and give him half the money!!!* It never stopped Even his family wont help him now as they (at last) see what he is about I was paying his bills and he was throwing MY money in porn and interactive sex chat sites I am still paying off the debt he created And yes he is a car salesman! I am in no contact and sometimes when I get weak I just have to think how hard I am working I almost lost my home because of him Please do not forget ::and N is a vampire They take everything from you then tell you how loathsome you are Thank you for keeping me on the path of NO CONTACT

    Reply
      Kim Saeed August 9, 2014

      Blue,

      I’m so glad to know my post helped you stay strong in your journey of No Contact. Ironically, my Ex is a car salesman, too 🙂

      Yes, Moocher Narcs are vampires and there is nothing they won’t take from you…

      Stay strong <3

      Reply
betternotbroken May 22, 2014

The narcissist I know best, and I know a few, has moved in between these personas throughout his life. From moocher to dollar lama to the maestro and back to moocher. Why do they punish people when a request for intimacy is made? Why is that an “assault” on them? I understand why they react violently when they are no longer worshipped or when they are laughed at, by the request for intimacy being a capital offense always leaves me perplexed.

Reply
    18mitzvot May 23, 2014

    That is The Question. Why? Why no intimacy? WHY?

    Reply
      Kim Saeed May 23, 2014

      There is mounting evidence that in some cases, the part of their brain which is supposed to house emotions never developed properly. Then, there are those who developed Narcissistic traits due to being neglected as a child, and then yet there are others whose parents over-praised them as a child, so they grew up feeling entitled to everything and everyone…

      Either way, lack of empathy cannot be cured. Best thing to do is work on our own healing…

      Reply
18mitzvot May 22, 2014

Wow, Kim. Every post I read gets even better. I married #2 and he set me up for #1. Sounds like feces to me.

Reply
    Kim Saeed May 23, 2014

    Thank you for your kind words, 18mitzvot!

    I married number one, and that’s where he stayed during the entire length of our marriage…yes, it is indeed feces.

    Reply
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