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Very timely. Dating a new guy after taking a one year break from dating a narcissist. During that time I met a few guys that had a few of the signs mentioned above. This guy so far seems different but I needed to read this as a reminder as to what to take note of. Thank you
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Great advice here, Kim. Narcissists are masters of disguise, but even they can’t keep their mask straight all of the time.
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If I can add to #5, this also reflects the narcissistic trait of grandiosity. The narcissist has to be better than you, and so he or she will invent things that “you could do better.” To the unwary who do not understand this, it could undermine their confidence in their own parenting skills and philosophy.
Another good post, Kim. Thank you.
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Great list! Here are my responses to these behaviors to make these losers run fast in the opposite direction:
#1 – “My car was repossessed today. Do you mind picking me up?”
#2 – “Oh, you prefer red heads? I prefer men with a bigger you-know-what, but I guess we all have to settle, huh?.”
#3 – “One time, at band camp…”
#4 – “That’s hilarious, because my best friend is a Victoria’s Secret model. She admits that she likes dating boys. They’re so easily manipulated.”
#5 – “I’m sorry. Last I checked, Dr. Spock wrote that book.”
🙂
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My narc showed NONE of these signs early on. The child rearing thing eventually showed up around 4-5 months or so. He was also rude to my then 4-year-old son when he once got hurt and cried and he mockingly called him a “Baby!”. I was so taken aback by this bullying of a child whom he barely knew (not like that mattered). He admitted later he was jealous of my son. I should have run then but I excused it thinking that he was just one of those guys who was raised to be a tough guy. I called him out on it and he apologized but the mask came off fully later and he was cruel to both my son and I. He had 2 adopted kids whom he seemed to love (the best a narc can) but he could never accept my son. He saw him as competition. He only had visitation with his other kids so he can handle kids in short bursts. Now he only sees our daughter occasionally. I swear he does this so he can keep patting himself on the back and calling himself a “family man”. Our therapist said, “He’s a family man alright…he collects them.” (I am his fourth ex wife and he still thinks it’s because no one has ever “adored, worshipped, and appreciated” him enough (his words). Anyhow, now I know that a good man doesn’t slip up like that even once because it’s not in them to bully a little child. “Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.” I try to always keep that in mind now. I mainly wanted to say that none of these things can be present early on and you can still be blindsided by a Narc. The real mask seems to come off when you marry them. Other sites have warned that if they only talk about themselves and don’t ask questions about you on your first few dates then that is a Narc sign. Not always true either. My ex constantly asked me questions on the first few phone calls and dates (I used to call it the “interviews”). I only found out later that he was just storing up info on me to use against me in verbally brutal and mocking ways later. Also, to use for his false chameleon like image in order to trap me…for example, he asked me about wanting kids on the first date. After I said I really wanted more kids he said he wanted a whole bunch, too. We used to talk about having seven total (meaning three more). After we were engaged he said he’d “agree to only one”. WTF? To this day he tells everyone that he agreed to having a baby only because I wanted one and I only used him for a child so that I could be a single mother because that is what he says I truly wanted. (He is the one who divorced me!) Even though I said I’d rather stand in front of a firing squad then to go through divorce again and be a single parent he has the evil nerve to cruelly divorce me and then tell people this blatant lie. WOW. It’s bait and switch and projection and twisted perversion with these guys. Now with dating, I’ve learned to ask the questions and not let them know how I feel about a topic first so that I can feel comfortable that I’m getting a more honest answer. Then when I get that answer, I believe it! If it doesn’t fit with what I want and who I am…NEXT! Sorry that was so long. I just hope it helps someone else to know that although narcs seem to share some common traits and signs they do not share all and even the things that look good (like them asking a lot of questions about you) could actually be fueled by evil intentions. Good luck to all.
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LD, thank you for your input. The signs in this post certainly aren’t all-inclusive. They’re just a few of many.
I believe whatever has worked for a Narc in the past is what method they will use when screening for new supply, and also depends on their agenda and frankly, their level of intelligence and patience levels. In your case, your Ex asked you if you wanted kids on the first date to test the topic’s importance in order to devise his plan.
I once had a man ask me on the very first date, “So, what were your mistakes in your past relationships?” while tapping his smartphone…checking emails and messages and such. That one was pretty obvious. Needless to say, I didn’t go out with him again.
Other Narcs give no obvious signs in the beginning, which of course, is a strategy, too. That’s why it’s sometimes so difficult to determine their genuity. However, there’s usually some type of indicator that causes our intuition to pique, which we fail to give weight to.
Your Ex sounds a lot like mine…The bullying of you and your child, the child-like mocking, his ludicrous statement that you used him for a child because you “always wanted to be a single mother”. Seriously? Anyone who’s been a single mom can attest to how difficult it is emotionally and financially. I would hope that anyone who heard this statement from him would have some sort of discernment as to its truth.
Sounds like you have a great dating strategy. It’s really sad that today’s dating scene has come down to our having to be on constant alert. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s more important to establish a friendship first. That gives us time to really know someone before becoming intimate and making long-term plans with a virtual stranger.
ReplyHi Kim,
I hope it didn’t come across like I was saying anything negative about your writing as I so appreciate your work! I usually post here under another name and used my other alias by mistake. 😉 I was just amazed that my ex often did none of the signs you posted and that other websites post. He seemed to be very aware of what would look and sound good. I guess this troubles me because they are often so hard to detect. You are definitely correct that our intuition tells us something at some point early on and we ignore it because when they are good they are SO good.
My ex, whom I have to have contact with due to our daughter, still volunteers to do nice things for me. But, a week later he will rage at me for being 15 minutes late and therefore “still not making him a priority”. I wonder if they do these giving, loving things in order to balance out the evil…so that when you call them out on the bad behavior they immediately point out all the good they did and feel justified in now calling you “unappreciative” and being appalled that you could dare say they were verbally abusive when they are “such a good guy”. My theory is that they score-keep a lot…gifts have strings…so something nice is another test to see if you will reciprocate with something they deem just as good. Then, if you don’t (and what is ever good enough for them?), the rage feels justified for them I guess?
Anyhow, yes, seriously…he told everyone I used him in order to be a single mom, LOL. His 3rd ex wife and I spoke recently and she said he told her this but she knew better and that “anyone with half a brain knows that wasn’t what you signed up for as no woman does.” It was validating to talk to her.
Oh, by the way, talking about chameleons…he bragged to me that on his first date with the new supply when she said a dealbreaker for her was young children he just laughed and ordered another drink and didn’t tell her til months later about our baby daughter! Of course, she forgave him as according to him she “adores” and “worships” him. Apparently, she actually thanked him for lying to her so that she could get to see what a great guy he was and not judge him on having young kids. Wow, she may be the perfect fit for him since she helps him to spin his evil deeds into good ones! I wonder when she will get the D and D.
Lastly, I totally agree about the friendship part…take things slowly and TRUST your God-given instincts. The mistake I made was not running when the first huge red flag showed up about 3 months into dating. The guy you met who asked you what your past mistakes were…I would like someone asking me that and also answering it himself in order to see how introspective he is; however, while tapping his smartphone?? LOL. Wow. Those two things don’t seem to fit. That is just plain rude and clearly he isn’t introspective enough to realize how rude and dismissive of your presence it is! I guess if you answered the question and then asked him the same he’d blame all his exes for being rude, lol. Gotta laugh at these jerks. God knows I did enough crying and suffering with PTSD symptoms. Time to live in true happiness and love.
Sorry I always write so much more than I initially intend to! Thanks again for your work, Kim. 🙂
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Great advice- especially about trusting your instincts. I like how you distilled a lot of information into a few key points. It is easy to get caught u in the initial excitement of dating.
ReplyThanks, Kimberly! You are right about getting caught up in the moment when dating. More and more I think the best way to go about it is to establish a friendship first.
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